Lawrence Rothman has been performing in music circles for two decades; yet only this year did anyone likely identify them as predominantly an Americana artist. Based in Los Angeles and with collaborators or production clients such as Kim Gordon, Courtney Love, Girl in Red Empress Of Alison Mosshart (both members of Yeah Yeah Yeahs / Guns N Roses), and Alison Mosshart – not to mention soundtrack scores by Floria Sigismondi such as “The Runaways” or “The Turning”. Plus there was solo work as an indie rocker who would switch roles male or female depending on whomever she felt was appropriate at any one momentous momentous momentous moment!
Once again, let us focus on what’s at stake here – you. Despite your best intentions to the contrary. Rothman proved his knack for more homely work when producing one of the great Americana records from recent memory: Amanda Shires’ 2022 release “Take It Like a Man,” plus working on tracks by Margo Price, Brittney Spencer and Angel Olsen as well as teaming with Lucinda Williams as duet partner. Now Rothman has released their own outstanding solo record in that vein titled, “The Plow That Broke the Plains”. With songs so honest and intimate as those heard here, one might assume Rothman gravitate more toward more of a singer-songwriter sound. Rothman addresses some tougher personal experiences – from eating disorders to his treatment at the hands of Texas rednecks – which might push even realist genres closer to reality. The collection has garnered three impressive endorsements — S.G. Goodman collaborates on “R Blood”, Shires contributes harmony vocals for “LAX”, and Jason Isbell co-wrote and played guitar on Rothman’s signature tune “Poster Child”, an eye-opener about Rothman’s background that’s both gritty and catchy earworm-worthy in 2024.
Rothman spoke with Variety about how Nashville audiences have responded to his growing body of work, and how expanding genre-wise helped explore more traumatic personal experiences as a songwriter.
There has been an undeniable change to your music recently towards an Americana or singer-songwriter aesthetic, which Amanda Shires plays an influential part of; you worked as producer on her last and next albums as producer; this has caused you to lean more towards this direction while doing some work in Nashville? How have these changes occurred and do they contribute towards any musical ventures going forward?
My roots lie in Missouri; my dad was an influential radio DJ with deep connections in country and singer-songwriter music; thus exposing me to it early. Before becoming professional with it all, early recordings by me resembled what would now be termed Americana; eventually my father took me down to Nashville so that some initial recordings were done when I was 14 years old; eventually that changed as my sound gradually progressed more towards Big Star-type influences, followed by punk/Nirvana influences before eventually moving away from this sound altogether.
At the onset of pandemic influenza, I was recording my second album “Good Morning America.” While writing “Decent Man,” Lucinda Williams has always been an influence in my work and while writing I envisioned her dueting with me – she agreed! That led me back to Nashville where Amanda Lehmann also joined us recording Amanda’s songs which led us back into recording with each other for this record as well as discovering and loving all its writers and artists!
Music had long since moved away from song-oriented lyrics that told stories, yet Americana music remains very prevalent right now and influences much of what’s going on – including non-Americana stuff such as Charli XCX’s latest record which feels more personal to me personally. I don’t know if these artists listen to Americana and then decide they are going to incorporate its influence directly, rather I believe its influence permeating culture at large as part of everyday culture today, seeping into all corners.
So when I think back on why this particular record sounds more Americana, it wasn’t done so intentionally. As far as inspiration went, my intention was more instinctual; to write honest songs quickly without overthinking or making too metaphorical comparisons – recording something quick that captures a particular time in history rather than spending years making one project alone. As I am also a producer, I can operate the studio like an instrument; and have recorded records where I reinvent a song over an extended period, adding layers upon layers until finally, ultimately cutting them away entirely. Over a 10-year span, I used the traditional approach when recording records; however, with each new album, that approach started eroding until eventually on this record I adopted an entirely different strategy; just walking into the studio with either guitars or pianos and five people playing instruments and taking whatever is written during those 10 days is what will end up on disc.
So it appears you adapted quickly to Nashville culture, despite having your roots in what some might describe as glam-rock or punk music in some of your early recordings?
Each year that passes blurs our definitions of genre even further. On my debut record, I played nine distinct characters. Wearing prosthetics I referred to them as my “alters,” each person represented was performed for in a separate show as different songs were dedicated for different individuals – when this album hit shelves people wondered, what exactly is going on here!? People found my genre-defying efforts so disconcerting they called me questioning my authenticity (to which my answer would always be: that it all made perfect sense)! When this album came out people wondered: who the hell am I?
As time progresses, I don’t expect us to discuss genre. For this particular record however… “I never felt at ease fitting into any scene before; however, those in Nashville and its neighboring places that produce Americana music have been among the most welcoming, supportive, and understanding groups I’ve come across.” “Having worked extensively in pop music and indie music, nothing compares with my experience within Americana music’s community – so much so that this album may very well qualify as Americana.” “After twenty years in Americana music, and eight different record companies; meeting all sorts of interesting people — there’s simply nothing that compares with its community in terms of friendliness, honesty and warmth,” I write about my journey here.
That is an impressive endorsement for that community.
As I’m gender fluid, I never quite know what to expect when traveling somewhere new. So it was quite surprising when, upon my arrival to Nashville in 2020 and Sound Emporium studio – my studio of work at that time – suddenly switched up their bathroom stalls so they no longer said men and women! No one ever got my pronoun wrong either; that really took me by surprise but yeah it has been great; they have been extremely accommodating; never have I felt more at home making music before now!
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Your new album addresses many highly topical and personal topics; was there an intentional plan in place when creating this album?
As far as lyrics were concerned, my main goal for the record was that every track should come directly from my heart and tell my story. “Poster Child,” written alongside Jason Isbell was my initial attempt at doing that. There was an incident from my early 2000s life where I got attacked at a club for how I presented myself while performing, which Jason asked about while asking questions about my path. At that moment I brought it up but said something like: ‘Well I never wrote any songs about this yet.” “Sounds like our story. That seems like what we should write about!” Within an hour and a half we had written our song together and that started me feeling at ease with sharing stories that may have previously been too intimate or personal for my songwriting to include in its composition.
As my songs progressed, they explored uncomfortable places within myself and exposed those areas fully through song writing. For instance, “LAX” explored my eating disorder which was both embarrassing to write and share publicly with family and friends; nonetheless it gave me comfort knowing others might understand.
As I first listened to “LAX,” it did not immediately occur to me that its lyrics related to eating disorders or body image issues. Instead, my initial thought was about an airport terminal serving as an allegory for something larger in our culture – such as mental illness.
Well, as graphic as that sounds, to clarify, what I meant by lax was actually “lax,” not LAX. This double entendre.
People don’t guess at your preferences without you making that explicit.
While many will focus on what could go wrong and avoid risk altogether, I propose we look instead at why – the people have different expectations from how their world should operate than others have done so in the past. As much as it might not be comfortable to discuss, eating disorders are something few open up about openly; my particular case involved something which has gone relatively unsaid about; that being, seeing images posted of oneself by friends or fans that bothers you on social media platforms such as Instagram. Because you didn’t like that angle or because your camera lens distorted and you don’t look good. And this can lead to all sorts of self-involvement — I consider myself pretty strong without being vain at all! But I saw certain images and was called some names… and that affected me quite badly when seeing comparisons to people or photos I didn’t like… This led me down the dangerous path of starving myself and taking laxatives – this was pre-Ozempic, by the way… So while that might or might not have been dangerous behavior on its own, for sure – eventually leading me to an emergency room visit which served as my wakeup call.
That was definitely one of my more difficult situations to write about because it may lead to strangers reading it and passing judgment, while my family could potentially judge me too harshly for doing anything “illicit.” Regardless, I felt strongly that others go through similar experiences – something my song has validated: since its release countless people have come talking to me about my situation.
There have been no incidents reported during this period.
Lawrence Rothman and Floria Sigismondi attend the premiere of Universal Pictures’s “The Turning” at TCL Chinese Theatre on January 21, 2020 in Hollywood, California (Photo by Emma McIntyre/Getty Images). (Getty Images Photo).
Your collaboration with Jason Isbell on “Poster Child” marks a first time writing directly about being assaulted in Texas during the 2000s; but its lyrics offer an intriguing take; rather than use this issue publicly as press angle in past, their focus instead centers around resisting pressure to do so publicly before.
Yes, when that happened to me when I was in my early twenties, I wasn’t one for sharing too many personal details. Instead I preferred taking an approach similar to Thom Yorke of Radiohead – where songs speak for themselves while you just sing as an artist without needing much explanation from you! I have worked with numerous record labels who asked what my story would be for an album, without giving too much away, yet they needed something press-worthy that they could write about for press purposes. My inspiration for this song came when it happened; earlier at Geffen Records they tried to use my story like it was some kind of press event which felt sort of uncomfortable at the time.
Everything about my experience felt violated – from how my record company and man who did it handled things to now writing about and talking about my past abuse as though there’s some ironic aspect – though being 42 now gives me greater perspective and greater perspective about this whole episode.
“My goal here isn’t to become some huge household name or pop star; nor am I even trying to emulate Dave Grohl; rather, what I hope to achieve here is an honest account of events which occurred within my own experience.” What would be the point in making music, for anyone, if I just did it to please myself and nobody else? That kind of “look at me, look at me” mentality does not sit comfortably with me. Since I’ve lived a very colorful life, now that I’m over 40, my goal is to use music as therapy and influence or comfort someone younger or older than I in some way — hopefully conveying through all my songs but particularly “You Are Not Alone”. Music really can bring about change! That is my message with each and every one of my songs — particularly this particular tune.
Your last album in 2017 marked an increase in discussion about being non-binary – which at that time seemed bold, given our language and understanding has evolved so significantly since. Do you find discussing it now more comfortable than when confronted by confrontations from real life over two decades earlier?
My 2017 record “The Book of Law” marked a more open approach towards identity and gender fluidity – I floated between different identities and gender identities on that album visually represented as nine different alter egos. Pitchfork published an article detailing it. This record truly explored these themes of fluidity of identity and gender identities while I floated between identities/gender identities throughout.
No matter our gender identity, I believe we’re all different. Right now you and I may act one way; once off the phone though, we may act differently when with loved ones or friends. Your boss knows there are various parts of you. That corresponds with identity and gender identity issues on our planet: We’re just individuals living here together on this Earth. On some days we may feel more feminine or masculine; on other days our feelings might fluctuate between both extremes; other days may make no sense at all! And I believe this to be part of society’s constraints, while gender fluidity essentially involves just being yourself; being your authentic self means not restricting oneself by pronoun, but shifting them according to circumstance and need. Past generations have felt tremendous pain and shame due to a lack of definition for feeling disorientated by gender norms at present, no acceptance from society for this situation and therefore no dialogue regarding it publicly.
So I feel proud of all that has been accomplished… when I came out with that in 2017, it was unheard-of in many circles; within music itself they didn’t really grasp what I meant until I explained what my intentions were. Fast forward to 2024 and this issue is once more being widely debated. And while that is particularly essential for young people, something which doesn’t get discussed as often is how many older individuals who may have lived for decades in shame or denial of not knowing how they felt now find solace here: “I am actually them/them”, or ‘they/them”, she/them or they/them…and here I can find certain relief.” Finding comfort can be hard when you are both young and old; but in today’s society it doesn’t feel shameful anymore, which provides older individuals who may have long suffered in silence with shameful memories a great outlet – one which didn’t exist before due to conversations no longer being taboo and accepted within society.
Can you explain what inspired “R Blood,” featuring S.G. Goodman? As stated by you previously, that song stands as an attempt at protest against current events.
First and foremost, S.G is one of my all-time favorites and when recording her song I struggled with finding notes I couldn’t quite reach, thinking to myself “This needs to sound more like S.G.” So as soon as the project wrapped I called her up to ask her sing on it! That was such an honor as S.G is one of my all-time favourite new artists whose music completely blows me away every time!
As much as I respect those that can, I tend not to write political songs because they can often convey information without coming off sounding biased or uneducated. While there are people out there that excel in doing that kind of writing, that has never really been something I felt comfortable trying out myself. But that song came quickly and organically to me; after hearing of an incident at a school near Nashville that featured gunfire, which really hit home as I recall growing up during Columbine and experiencing that fear when going back to class each morning. My daughter attends school, and there was an active shooter incident on that campus within that month; therefore it really hit home to me personally and so it felt necessary for it all to go on record. I wrote it very honestly from my own experience so as to create an authentic account from which to speak out publicly on such issues in future discussions.
What exactly does “Never a Right Time” refer to, please? This song contains lines like, “Trust in me as you trust in your Lord / I believe this cure,” suggesting it could have deeper significance for some individuals.
Assistance with Euthanasia. I personally knew someone going through that experience whose family were quite religious; once she made up her mind to move ahead with euthanasia she asked that everyone just accept and believe her like they do the Lord; that decision turned out to be right.
What does “The Plow That Broke the Plains” represent for you?
Amanda Shires and I were working together when she mentioned this word to me; it immediately made sense as the title for my record. But before she gave it any meaning, she asked why that title should apply; when I said my body resembles an airplane with emotional wreckage within, and this term fits, Amanda simply told me, you should call your record that. And so when it eventually crossed my mind to look it up online (after initially resisting!), it had something to do with farming from the 1940s… but words can mean anything that fits!
There’s been much discussion recently over what constitutes an acceptable standard of living – particularly amongst Millennials – with regard to using technology as part of that effort. So in an attempt to ensure their well-being is preserved while at the same time enabling them to access quality care if something does go wrong
Lawrence Rothman and Amanda Shires attend the 2021 GQ Men of the Year Party on November 18th 2021 in West Hollywood, CA (Photo by Joe Scarnici/Getty Images for GQ). (Photograph courtesy Getty Images).
How did you come to work as Amanda’s producer?
“I first discovered Amanda during the pandemic. After becoming completely hooked on The Highwomen record (now one of my five favorite albums ever!), which led me to her music, and ultimately to Amanda herself, my obsession led me straight back. Their “Unicorn” cover for Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” deluxe reissue tribute addendum included parts from Amanda herself!
“I approached her because her voice perfectly compliments mine; we hadn’t met yet, and our audition went so well that we decided to see if we could work together with (her) music. In 2020 we entered a studio together and recorded three songs that later appeared on “Take It Like a Man,” including Fault Lines,” Don’t Be Alarmed” and Stupid Love” within one day; upon hearing this request from her she told me I needed to return in two weeks to complete all four “Take It Like a Man” records together – in fact we ended up recording all 11 tracks together for that record in 2020!
At first I knew — and still do — I had discovered an incredible treasure. It’s so strange how there can be people out there whom you never meet until one day you find one and it all clicks into place like two pieces of puzzle coming together perfectly. In her songwriting I have immense respect; her songs can easily be sang along to yet they speak volumes of poetry! I had long searched for someone like that as an collaborator as producer in order to feel part of a band as well, yet somehow we seem suited for one another; she fit that role perfectly as both producer and band member simultaneously! When we get together it is like two kids having fun in an all-out jam session when we get into the studio together it feels like two kids playing on an all-out jam session! And her songwriting ability leaves an indelirium all its own; you could sing her songs while they speak volumes in terms of lyrics alone! It’s rare indeed indeed when someone can produce work like her songwriting can, while at once both poetic yet accessible that makes her songs instantly relatable while being both accessible yet poetic with words to spare – you could sing her lyrics while also finding her songs through singing her verses which you could sing but also poetry!
Are You Working On “Take It Like a Man 2?” in 2023 Still Due for Release?
Last August was when she first came into my studio for our initial session and it’s finally going to get finished! After taking some time away to relax after working so intensively last year on several songs together, this follow-up session should yield much fruitful material to finish this project off properly. It will certainly be quite an undertaking.
