Eugene Daniels of Politico has become Poynter's go-to expert on Kamala Harris.

Eugene Daniels navigates life guided by the advice of his mother: you belong in every single room you find yourself. She would reassure him of that fact. Politico’s White House correspondent has carried his voice through the White House walls and on Air Force One flights as well as campaign trail walks with Vice President Kamala Harris. Since Daniels began writing about Harris shortly after she won her Senate race in 2016, he’s become one of her foremost expert voices, often providing analysis on Politico’s podcast “The Playbook Deep Dive”. His expert voice can often be found providing commentary for this program. Eugene Daniels was one of three Black journalists who interviewed Kamala Harris on Sept 17 in Philadelphia and was later appointed President of the White House Correspondents’ Association over summer. Eugene Daniels stands out among them all as being an expert in all things Kamala Harris related. John also prides himself as being an “encyclopedia of Beyonce”, sporting bold fashion choices to match his outgoing reporting, speaking, and showing up style in the world. Vice President Kamala Harris poses with Eugene Daniels, Treasurer for White House Correspondents Association and White House reporter from Politico during a White House Correspondents Association dinner. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster) He’s come a long way since writing student publications and hosting radio programs as a college student; now his legacy will live on beyond him. Poynter spoke with Daniels about what he has learned covering Kamala Harris, advice he would offer aspiring political reporters, and the value of bringing yourself into every room you enter. Please note this conversation has been edited for clarity and brevity. TyLisa C. Johnson: Take us back. What were your origins of journalism? Eugene Daniels: My journalism roots can be traced back to college at Colorado State University where, against my will and according to what everyone had told me would happen throughout life, I began the journey towards being both a lawyer and politician. [Laughs] As soon as I started school I knew something had to give and that something wasn’t right – there’s so much that can get caught up in politics that good people get bogged down with doing things they might otherwise find distasteful; something which wasn’t my calling anyway. Upon realizing this fact I realized it wouldn’t be necessary for me. So I went and saw Professor Pam Jackson from my journalism class; when the plan that had mapped my future out fell apart. “Oh no,” was all I said before she replied that perhaps you don’t want to become such a powerful individual in life after all. At that point, everything clicked for me and I dove right in. I joined all aspects of student media – CTV (our college TV station), College newspaper and College Avenue magazine were my spheres of operation – which changed my major. Johnson: Daniels After Dark! Let’s bring that back! And I also had a radio show. Daniels: No need for that either – although my radio show still exists today! Johnson: But we definitely need an update or revival! Daniels: [Laughs] I am rather pleased it cannot be found anymore and had one! Johnson: Oh no – Daniels After Dark needs revival too! Daniels: “My approach has always been built around storytelling as its cornerstone; all other considerations such as placement or packaging can often be handled on an as-needed basis – something which has served me very well in my current role.” Johnson: That is so amazing to hear; your foundational blocks have truly come full circle now that they serve your current role! What have been some of your defining moments that led you here, covering someone like Vice President Mike Pence who could become President? Daniels: That moment you describe, when your professor asked whether you might see your purpose as holding these people accountable, was clearly an impactful turning point for me if watching “Inside Out.” I wonder what other moments of similar importance come to mind? Daniels: My first job in Colorado Springs TV news was as a multimedia journalist who wanted to pursue full-time reporting work on camera. To accomplish that goal, I went through all the hoops necessary and worked closely with voice coaches during this transition process. My editing was fantastic since I had already been shooting photos. Working alongside writing staff made the final test stress-free; unfortunately when it came time for the general manager’s final test he informed me that my voice was too Black to become full time reporting in Colorado Springs. At that defining moment in my career journey, my paths changed drastically: from believing local TV would be my go-to medium for most of my journalism career to switching gears completely and becoming part of Newsy’s digital team, as well as moving to Columbia Missouri a college town despite only being 20-something years old. That moment when someone told me my voice was too Black taught me two important lessons: racism exists today; second, my response in response was inappropriate because we lived in 2014 where people typically did not fight back when treated unfairly and left hurt and confused as was my case at that moment in time. What I have taken away from that experience is the knowledge that people will always have something to say; you don’t always need to listen. After going to Newsy, all conversations were on camera – this experience proved another key moment as part of anchor practice with their head of news at that time. As soon as I was put in front of a camera, I attempted to copy Tom Brokaw. Christina Hartman looked at me and asked, “What are you doing? And I responded that I was anchoring. She told me she hired me specifically so she wanted me to sound more like myself than any voice I did before! She then told me it would work better to sound more natural: “I don’t recognize this person” became another moment that helped define who I was and I ended up moving to D.C. as part of Newsy before being approached by Politico’s head of video production at that time and taken on as one of his video journalists. As part of Newsy/Politico partnership, she asked me, ‘do you want to work here’; when she saw my answer was in fact yes I came over to their video team during election time for 2020 election coverage. They wanted the video team to produce more original content and focus on being reporters in an unconventional manner, which I told the editor at that time: ‘You guys want me to do this but I am not in politics or have any meetings.” She replied with something along these lines – well that is silly; let them make their decision on their own terms. So they put me on the politics team, and I attended meetings. At first, this role served dual functions – because Andrew Yang, who had done relatively well despite lacking experience or coverage within politics was doing so well and no one was covering him; I became his sole advocate. “Hey look,” I told them, “I believe in myself as a writer – these scripts I write are proof. My college degree was in journalism/writing so if this proves too challenging for you then just move me over to video team; otherwise I won’t ask again!” And they let me. After working out for them, this arrangement proved fruitful; I got double work out of me by going on trips with Yang and writing down stories and documenting video at the same time – something they also asked about following election night. And after election results came in, they asked what my plans would be next. “Off Message,” which Politico used to have as a podcast, I proposed as something new; video instead. My idea would be that every week, I interview new power in D.C.; that would become “Off Message.” I do both videos and podcasts for it as well as writing longform pieces about this process every week. And I was very pleased by that concept, until they told me it wasn’t good enough and asked me instead to cover new power within the White House team, especially regarding Kamala Harris (then Vice President-elect). They looked upon this as the epitome of new power; I was thrilled at their reaction; this achievement filled me with pride. They came back and told me they wanted me to join their Playbook team; in other words, we want my services and expertise as part of it all. All those moments were leading towards this point, and what I found particularly fascinating and foresighted of both editors, as well as me at some points, was Harris was always going to play an integral part. People may not have realized just how key he would become at times though. Joe Biden had often spoken about being a bridge. To his consternation, it appeared his bridge could only lead one way – that being Vice President Harris in 2024-2028. Either way, they wanted us to cover this and her with as much intensity and scrutiny as President Biden; she could become No. 1. So it has impacted how we at Politico, perhaps journalism more broadly, view vice presidency coverage compared to before; something it never used to do at all. I suppose what this all boils down to for me are just a few core memories from covering vice presidency: Johnson: You are such an impressive example of what it means to bring one’s full self into any given environment. Your energy is infectious. Although an experienced journalist, your Blackness shines through incredibly vibrantly; furthermore, you don’t hide from discussing queer issues either; your perspective has such depth! D.C. can seem like a more traditional media sphere; I would love to know about your experiences being an older Black queer journalist working there and its challenges for you as an emerging journalist in that environment. Daniels: My journey has brought me more comfortable in being my true self in those spaces, which was something that happened later than expected in life; at 27 I came out. After coming out I felt as if my 27 years spent pretending were wasted away pretending who or what I am was not who or what it really was.” “No.” And then came an epiphany moment where I said: “I don’t care what kind of jobs or relationships that means for me; this moment gave me strength that I didn’t anticipate requiring now; right? After all, this is who I am.” “I wear whatever I like, my hairstyle remains unchanged, my nails remain as is; any issue with that would be entirely at their discretion – what others think about me isn’t my business!” Though that can sometimes be easier said than done, that is my core approach for running my operations. Over time I have observed that people seem attracted to what I bring – whether at D.C.’s White House, Hill or other places around D.C.. Being true to yourself allows others permission, at times, to do the same. I have often experienced great happiness from being fully myself without worrying about other’s opinions; though that does not guarantee there won’t be critics along my journey! There are people online who take great pleasure in calling me all sorts of names whenever I appear on television or receive pictures, be it through Twitter DMs, Instagram DMs, emails to Politico from them directly – it can be tough. It can make life very hard indeed. “To be completely honest, that part is very challenging and unfortunate; a constant reminder that we’re not where we thought we were and people have bizarre interpretations about your knowledge about certain topics that make them think you possess special knowledge about them. I rely on what my mom taught me as a kid: that you belong in every single room you enter. As a kid, you aren’t sure what your mom means when they mention something like this; I used to think they were talking gibberish! What rooms will be included? As I’ve aged, that has always been something that I strive for; no matter my clothing or activities, no matter my surroundings – the one thing that unifies them all is my focus: there’s a reason I am here – only me can accomplish what is being attempted here. One should try and ignore any hate directed my way, yet eventually you get something back that can change that: letters from parents/teachers telling me their child saw me wearing nail polish to school and now feels okay about wearing it as well, or people coming up to me at events such as DNC/RNC to let me know they have queer children or come up to me saying my kid is queer – you get these positive outcomes as a reward for doing what’s necessary to combat homophobia or racism in society. People want to become reporters but thought they couldn’t express all aspects of who they are; perhaps they thought wearing navy suits and ties was necessary; now, however, they feel as if that may no longer be necessary; such experiences demonstrate the value of leaning into who we truly are. Also, when we fully accept who we are and bring that identity into work environments, there’s more room in your brain to focus on work because there’s less need to mask anything – which was something I learned first-hand. Once I came out, I discovered that once my mind wasn’t consumed with wondering about “Oh my God what do I sound like”, “Omg is my wrist too limp, is this nail polish too much”, etc. instead it allowed me to focus on work rather than worry. Therefore it has also proven beneficial in terms of productivity in terms of actual projects undertaken by me. Johnson: It was wonderful hearing your mom’s voice resonating through my ears as we discussed your reporting journey together as a family unit. What reporting story did you most look forward to sharing with them? Daniels: My most exciting campaign experience involved my grandmother. As part of Joe Biden’s video team for South Carolina primary, where we knew it could make or break his chances, both sides of my family hail from Myrtle Beach area in South Carolina – this made this election especially meaningful to me personally and emotionally. When trying to decide how best to proceed in South Carolina, I was attending. We knew I’d be traveling there but weren’t sure how we were going to produce Man on the Street with voters there? In response, our head of video suggested Eugene interview his grandmother instead. And I thought to myself: that’s strange; interviewing your grandmother should not be permitted. She responded that it didn’t represent my views as much as hers – so I went down to South Carolina and conducted this hour-long sit down interview with my grandma. I met an elected official from my state as well as an active young Democrat from that area. Sitting together in my grandmother’s sitting room with cameras surrounding us and discussing not just political and policy topics but also providing her with the chance to recount or tell new tales from our family’s history in Jim Crow South was great way for people to gain deeper understanding — which worked especially well come summer of 2020! One thing I felt I accomplished through writing was explaining to others the experience that Black people go through in this country, both now and historically. My grandmother would tell stories about when she was six and their mother would bring along a bucket to use the restroom because the public bathrooms for Black people were so filthy; rather than allow their use in these facilities she insisted upon using bucket outside to use as toilet. At once a journalistic and personal story, Nana told stories about our family for over an hour! Now my family enjoys hearing all her tales! “Over time I have covered many amazing stories and been given many amazing opportunities, yet this particular tale stands out. It served as an important reminder for political journalists that real people matter equally.” Voters, ordinary voters in particular, are at the core of everything happening here – not us as political actors! Their votes drive everything we do as candidates or political party representatives; therefore it serves as a good reminder to always consider and prioritize those voters when developing policy solutions and strategies. Johnson: What are your observations of what political reporters are getting right and wrong now? Daniels: Over time we have learned not to be so self-important with ourselves like Royal We would. As journalists and reporters, our job should be to report accurately on our findings while not thinking we know everything right. Over the last nine years has taught us one thing – politics are complex and growing more so every year; increasingly fewer voters sit within these boxes for voting purposes. I think we’re doing it right; learning, in large part. There may still be tension due to growing pains but overall we appear to be on the right path. What we might be getting wrong would make an interesting conversation piece! “There remains an absence of focus on voters or an unwillingness to understand their motivations for taking actions they do, particularly as reporters. When someone says, I voted this way or that way or didn’t vote at all – we usually leave it at that and move onto other stories – rather than asking “why”?” The real issue here lies within. Why are people feeling left behind? Who or what do they blame for being neglected, and is their anger directed against those responsible or someone else altogether? There can be numerous explanations as to why voters may feel this way. And I believe we don’t put enough emphasis on that aspect. After 2016, many Democrats spent time speaking with Trump supporters, trying to understand them better; I feel we’ve lost some of that engagement by not spending as much time talking to Black men about why they feel this way about Democratic party membership. We don’t spend enough time engaging Black women by asking, “How does it feel to be the foundation of a party and not receive all the credit that is deserved?,” and speaking to white men regarding why they feel left behind and the effects that anger has. Queer people need more conversations with us about why trans ads scare them, what that means in terms of both politics and policy change, as well as any shifts they perceive taking place as a result of this fear-inducing campaign. Johnson: What role do political journalists have in actually shaping public opinion? How are you reconciling and balancing the kind of influence you wield with the obligation of informing? Daniels: My responsibility to inform causes me great worry. Pam Jackson told me early in my career path that my goals should include holding powerful people to account while telling their stories for them – this became my North Star; always moving in the same direction. As journalists, taking seriously our responsibility of communicating information that could influence someone’s opinions of their country and potentially impact how they vote is an enormous responsibility that all journalists must embrace when writing articles for publication and podcasting – we serve as mirrors reflecting back upon Americans as part of a public service mission. These are your options and it is up to you to decide. I work very hard not to influence this decision myself and decide who’s right or wrong; there are certain facts which stand firm and must be acknowledged as such. But I need to disconnect myself and all of my personal emotions from it and view this work as something higher – or maybe more accurately: public service. So here I am telling you everything necessary so you can make an informed decision yourself. Responsibility should always be at the core of journalism, whether that means investigative reporting or simply publishing something as an article in Playbook; people are going to see this. Once it hits the world, its journey can take unexpected twists and turns. Are the facts true and understood across party lines? Are these pieces intended for nonpartisan consumption by voters at-large? As I reflect upon journalism, my mind often turns back to Nana; that is always where my thoughts start when considering my writing career. Thinking back on Nana makes it apparent: what should people like her know to complete their jobs effectively. Or is their goal simply to live their own lives and make decisions? I tend to think in this vein; doing so puts pressure on our work but also provides us with many unique experiences which many others won’t ever get the opportunity for. Therefore, pressure should be put upon us to produce results for voters. Johnson: I imagine being an 18 year-old journalist reading this would make you nervous; you would think: This sounds really important and scary at the same time! Daniels: If there was one piece of advice I’d offer young journalists entering political journalism today, especially regarding ethics and bias and ever-evolving ideas of objectivity: Be scared. That’s fine with me; that fear should never stop anyone. No job or career should feel too large for you; take in all you can from those around you before molding and personalizing it as best suits you. My mother always said it best: You belong in every single place where you find yourself! Find news organizations or allies within news organizations who will affirm everything that’s important to you – even though that could mean finding an individual you can relate to on an equal level – while upholding their beliefs as theirs are held sacred as yours are held upheld as important by them too. I wouldn’t expect that every newsperson knows everything – that’s OK too. No need to know everything; that is part of my personality! All I do is be nosy and ask lots of questions from smart, interesting people such as politicians or voters and then report back with my findings to others. Remind yourself why you became involved with journalism in the first place; otherwise it can easily divert away from its goals and pursuits. Staying true to those aspects that attracted you is paramount: there will always be distractions thrown your way; just remember why you chose journalism is key for survival! Johnson: As we near Election Day, and with your years-long coverage of Kamala Harris (including your interview for NABJ), and your coverage even as recently as her candidacy announcement on November 4th; in some ways you are an authority on Kamala Harris — something like Maggie Haberman but for Kamala. What has been your greatest discovery while covering Harris? Daniels: One thing I’ve discovered with Harris as my first principal is this: You should approach her thinking you know nothing; be open-minded as things may change over time and any preconceptions, even those formed based on reporting, may not always prove accurate or helpful. At the start of my first year as editor-in-chief of her office magazine, people began telling me: ‘The office is an absolute disaster.” My advice at that time: Follow storylines wherever they lead. We wrote some tough scenes involving members on her team who remain upset after our initial year together. But then things began to alter slightly; she felt more at home within herself, while changes occurred on her team. Now this storyline wants to know: How have they accomplished that task, and will it last long enough? Follow Vice President Harris as their story develops and you might discover new information along the way, often things they would prefer kept private, including how they operate personally. Why did they get involved? And do their reasons reflect reality? Politicians frequently claim to represent the people, yet do these claims ring true? Politicians like to boast they represent them all – is that really true? Are the answers ever clear for Vice President Harris’ story, no matter which side she may fall on? I have learned not to assume I know where her path leads me as it goes forward and listen to every twist and turn as the tale develops. Six months ago, had you asked me whether the person I had been covering would become the presidential candidate? No way! You must always be ready for new challenges. Politico allowed me to cover their beat – what an honour! There are those of us who have long followed Harris since before it became fashionable or captivating; at times when its charm wasn’t that apparent or its characters less engaging. Understand this complex individual you’re covering and the relationships around them to gain more of an insight. Always remain firm but impartial – that is your task here! Understanding who we are as a society and bringing that into account when covering someone is essential. Johnson: You give back to the profession by seeing yourself as part of its advancement — thanks to all the matriarchs, Black people and queer people who paved the way before you. What are your hopes for its continuation with regards to black and queer journalists? Daniels: My greatest wish is for all Black journalists and queer journalists to be treated equally by society; as many often question our loyalty or ask if we are impartial enough in reporting stories. People sometimes mistake our backgrounds for bias; but I believe them to be our superpower. Being from diverse backgrounds enables you to bring all your experience and understanding of Black, Queer and Marginalized peoples and communities. My main hope for future generations is that they won’t face as many of these difficulties that we do daily; people always comment about us being too hard on Kamala Harris when covering her campaign and covering Black people covering Kamala Harris specifically are just two examples. “Her team believes I am hard on her, just as hard as we would be on Joe Biden or Donald Trump,” Daniels stated, so her hope is for everyone involved to judge on work alone rather than background considerations. Correction, Nov. 5, 9:15 am: Daniels was officially installed as White House Correspondents Association president over the summer.