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Re: New Real Estate Commission rules – what I am running into
PeninsulaPerson wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:03 pm
Issues could have been considerably simpler when even “marginal” illustration by a purchaser’s agent gave the vendor and their agent the “confidence” to have the ability to consider and/or declare that the customer was fully-informed. The place do these two events get that confidence now?
Precisely, and this is the reason I feel not less than to start with itemizing brokers are going to strive very laborious to get unrepresented consumers to signal a twin company settlement the place that’s authorized. Realtors have at all times tried to do that previously in states the place it’s authorized.
Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
Sho wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 2:00 pmNorthern Flicker wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 12:27 pmMaverick3320 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 11:47 amTavistock1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 11:08 amMaverick3320 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 9:15 amMight you’re employed with that if you did not have to present a excessive share of your fee to your company/brokerage? What worth does the brokerage present?
I don’t give a big share – began w at month-to-month “charge” and did that for 20+ Years- name it a franchise charge. By share of income that averaged about 5%. Slowing down now, i negotiated a small % of fee v month-to-month –
You did not reply the second a part of the query.
What worth does the brokerage present?
brokerage offers a danger administration operate overseeing the transactions.
Are you able to please clarify ?
Does the Title firm not examine all the pieces ? You wire the cash to them . They examine the papers .And if one thing will not be proper within the residence after the sale is closed , do the brokerage take any accountability? I heard you possibly can solely sue the inspector for his or her charges solely ? I m unsure about that . Pl right if I’m incorrect .
I’m positive there are nice realtors who work in true fiduciary method and information their shoppers, cease them from overpaying , shopping for overinflated homes, however sadly I didn’t discover them .
I wish to hear some experiences the place realtors saved their shoppers from a catastrophe ( which the shoppers wouldn’t have seen themselves ).
After I purchased my first residence, I used a realtor who was beneficial by a colleague. She had proven me a home, and I made a suggestion. I’ve requested her thrice if the greenbelt behind the home could be developed. She stated no. Over the weekend, I bought nervous and determined to have a look at what was then a Thomas Information. The Thomas Information clearly confirmed {that a} street could be going by way of the greenbelt. I instantly referred to as the agent and canceled the deal.
For the second residence I purshased, I really discovered a house on an Web search. Apparently, the proprietor (an actual property agent) was laborious to come up with as a result of they have been renting the home out. After my agent stated they could not come up with the proprietor, I requested her to come up with the proprietor or I might hearth her. She did, I made a suggestion on the home, and it was accepted. My expertise with shopping for actual property is that the agent provides completely no worth.
After I purchase my subsequent home, I’ll search on the Web and phone the promoting agent to see the home. After all, I might have an legal professional for the paperwork and have an inspection and title search. I might by no means pay for a purchaser’s agent. I do know precisely what I would like and do not want their hand-holding.
Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
Ependytis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:08 pm
After I purchase my subsequent home, I’ll search on the Web and phone the promoting agent to see the home. After all, I might have an legal professional for the paperwork and have an inspection and title search. I might by no means pay for a purchaser’s agent. I do know precisely what I would like and do not want their hand-holding.
I feel one of many methods consumers brokers are going to have to indicate extra worth is doing extra information analytics to help the customer moderately than simply establishing the MLS to ahead emails to the customer primarily based on some filter settings. That kind of effort (establishing a search in a database) needs to be flat charge.
You could possibly do it your self, and should wish to, however many different folks won’t wish to do this themselves. Realtors who’ve pocket listings or connections that assist in securing a home in a really excessive demand space will even nonetheless add worth.
The individuals who wish to see 50 homes in individual or ship their realtor out to personally measure the scale of each storage to see if their outsized truck will match might be out of luck.
Re: New Real Estate Commission rules – what I am running into
PeninsulaPerson wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 7:35 am
Gotta’ love the legislation of unintended penalties.Or perhaps that is only a massive clarification. The customer’s agent by no means was “free.”
So many shifting components that it is unattainable to make sure of the way it all shakes out.
I preserve questioning if quickly there might be no Open Homes and it will be, “You wish to see the property? Look on-line. You wish to tour the property? You want a dealer settlement.”
As a result of many/most sellers are going to desire a dealer. That is a contract association and the dealer will contract in what they need. For sellers’ markets anyway – which might be the place most individuals wish to stay!
If the vendor’s agent will not present you the property, why could not folks simply make a suggestion on the property with contingencies. The provide would pressure the promoting agent to indicate the customer the provide. The contingencies would mean you can again out of the deal, if there was a major subject with the property.
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Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
stan1 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:14 pmEpendytis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:08 pm
After I purchase my subsequent home, I’ll search on the Web and phone the promoting agent to see the home. After all, I might have an legal professional for the paperwork and have an inspection and title search. I might by no means pay for a purchaser’s agent. I do know precisely what I would like and do not want their hand-holding.I feel one of many methods consumers brokers are going to have to indicate extra worth is doing extra information analytics to help the customer moderately than simply establishing the MLS to ahead emails to the customer primarily based on some filter settings. That kind of effort (establishing a search in a database) needs to be flat charge.
You could possibly do it your self, and should wish to, however many different folks won’t wish to do this themselves. Realtors who’ve pocket listings or connections that assist in securing a home in a really excessive demand space will even nonetheless add worth.
The individuals who wish to see 50 homes in individual or ship their realtor out to personally measure the scale of each storage to see if their outsized truck will match might be out of luck.
I perceive the overall idea of a pocket itemizing, however how precisely does it work?
For example it is a brokerage with 1 dealer and 9 brokers, is a selected pocket itemizing the area of simply one of many realtors, or is it pocket itemizing for all 10 realtors on the brokerage?
For a potential purchaser, how does one discover an agent/dealer/brokerage with pocket itemizing?
For a potential vendor, what would inspire the vendor to do a pocket itemizing that will not attain all meant viewers vs public itemizing that will get extra views?
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Re: New Real Estate Commission rules – what I am running into
Ependytis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:27 pm
If the vendor’s agent will not present you the property, why could not folks simply make a suggestion on the property with contingencies. The provide would pressure the promoting agent to indicate the customer the provide. The contingencies would mean you can again out of the deal, if there was a major subject with the property.
And presumably – in sizzling sellers’ markets – that might get that supply proper to the underside of the pile.
Sellers usually are not going to wish to take care of all that – particularly if they’ve a number of, over itemizing value gives.
The vendor’s agent can present the vendor that supply with a tragic look of regret (or fun!) that claims, “This one may very well be powerful.”
If the vendor solely has even one good different provide, that may very well be it for the give you’re suggesting.
As I perceive it, (many? most?) sellers don’t want offers to be torpedoed.
Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
InvisibleAerobar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:45 pm
For example it is a brokerage with 1 dealer and 9 brokers, is a selected pocket itemizing the area of simply one of many realtors, or is it pocket itemizing for all 10 realtors on the brokerage?For a potential purchaser, how does one discover an agent/dealer/brokerage with pocket itemizing?
For a potential vendor, what would inspire the vendor to do a pocket itemizing that will not attain all meant viewers vs public itemizing that will get extra views?
Actual property is native, however right here it will go down one thing like this. It is perhaps totally different elsewhere. There’s an agent who’s a “neighborhood specialist”. Somebody who has labored within the neighborhood for years and has repeat shoppers. Possibly folks used that realtor to purchase their home and now desires to promote it. Realtor has repute and stays in contact with shoppers. The vendor desires a straightforward sale, they do not need an open home or plenty of folks in the home. Normally pocket itemizing would be the vendor’s suggestion, not the realtors. Vendor desires privateness and does not wish to waste time with nosy folks or unqualified consumers. Possibly the vendor desires a lease again or a quick escrow or different situations. Possibly the vendor will not be effectively they usually simply desire a fast sale. Most realtors do not encourage pocket listings however they do them if sellers need it.
The customer is perhaps keen to pay a premium in an effort to keep away from a bidding conflict that comes with MLS itemizing. Principally providing larger than comps. Possibly all money. On this situation the customer would let such an agent know what they’re searching for, and the agent would say “I will let you realize if one thing comes up”. In all probability not strategy for a purchaser who desires a cut price. Possibly it really works, perhaps not.
Not everybody will agree, however it’s one thing some folks do for emotional causes as a lot as logical causes. It’s uncommon (I might say it occurs in about 20% of the homes in my extremely wanted neighborhood). Not all that totally different from somebody promoting to one of many “I purchase homes for money” guys simply on a fascinating home moderately than a distressed home.
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Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
stan1 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:54 pmInvisibleAerobar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:45 pm
For example it is a brokerage with 1 dealer and 9 brokers, is a selected pocket itemizing the area of simply one of many realtors, or is it pocket itemizing for all 10 realtors on the brokerage?For a potential purchaser, how does one discover an agent/dealer/brokerage with pocket itemizing?
For a potential vendor, what would inspire the vendor to do a pocket itemizing that will not attain all meant viewers vs public itemizing that will get extra views?
Actual property is native, however right here it will go down one thing like this. It is perhaps totally different elsewhere. There’s an agent who’s a “neighborhood specialist”. Somebody who has labored within the neighborhood for years and has repeat shoppers. Possibly folks used that realtor to purchase their home and now desires to promote it. Realtor has repute and stays in contact with shoppers. The vendor desires a straightforward sale, they do not need an open home or plenty of folks in the home. Normally pocket itemizing would be the vendor’s suggestion, not the realtors. Vendor desires privateness and does not wish to waste time with nosy folks or unqualified consumers. Possibly the vendor desires a lease again or a quick escrow or different situations. Possibly the vendor will not be effectively they usually simply desire a fast sale. Most realtors do not encourage pocket listings however they do them if sellers need it.
The customer is perhaps keen to pay a premium in an effort to keep away from a bidding conflict that comes with MLS itemizing. Principally providing larger than comps. Possibly all money. On this situation the customer would let such an agent know what they’re searching for, and the agent would say “I will let you realize if one thing comes up”. In all probability not strategy for a purchaser who desires a cut price. Possibly it really works, perhaps not.
Not everybody will agree, however it’s one thing some folks do for emotional causes as a lot as logical causes. It’s uncommon (I might say it occurs in about 20% of the homes in my extremely wanted neighborhood). Not all that totally different from somebody promoting to one of many “I purchase homes for money” guys simply on a fascinating home moderately than a distressed home.
Thanks for the reason. It is useful to see this illustrated in additional concrete phrases.
Assume hypothetically that you simply have been shopping for in your neighborhood, how would you go about discovering a realtor with pocket listings? Would the method be one thing like discovering, assuming such information may very well be obtained, who represented sellers previously 12 months and chilly name the highest 5 brokers till one says s/he has occasional pocket listings?
Additionally, if somebody in your neighborhood have been to listing utilizing pocket itemizing, how would phrases get on the market? As in, would the promoting be restricted to fellow brokers/brokers inside the explicit brokerage, or would it not get unfold to realtors at different brokerages on pleasant phrases with the realtor having the pocket itemizing?
Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
InvisibleAerobar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:52 pm
Additionally, if somebody in your neighborhood have been to listing utilizing pocket itemizing, how would phrases get on the market? As in, would the promoting be restricted to fellow brokers/brokers inside the explicit brokerage, or would it not get unfold to realtors at different brokerages on pleasant phrases with the realtor having the pocket itemizing?
Once more, talking on the whole phrases and it may very well be totally different elsewhere, however the place I’ve seen this accomplished (now previously earlier than August 2024) is in particular, small neighborhoods the place one realtor has represented not less than 25% of the sellers or consumers for many years. Asking round and phrase of mouth might be higher than looking the web. Are you aware somebody who lives in that neighborhood? Go to an open home and see if the realtor talks about promoting a bunch of different homes on the road. Or stroll down the streets and should you see somebody of their yard cease and chat in regards to the neighborhood. The residents know who these persons are in the event that they exist. And I might be extra discreet with the realtor, all it is advisable say is “if one thing comes up let me know”. You do not ask them to let you realize if there’s a “pocket itemizing”. I’ve seen realtors ship out postcards that say “I’ve a money purchaser with a cute household who actually desires to purchase in your neighborhood”. I am unsure the story is true after I get a kind of submit playing cards. My grandmother was getting these within the Nineteen Seventies as effectively the place she lived.
Since it’s now 2024 they might need you to signal a consumers agent contract with them moderately than put you on an curiosity listing, and this may not work anymore except you may get them to slim the contract right down to a selected neighborhood.
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Buying Agent – new RE Rules
For our previous two residence purchases, now we have used a reduction realtor who credited us 35% of fee at shut. We would discover our personal houses on Zillow, leverage the realtor to open the door, and pay money. We transfer shortly and know what sort of residence we wish to purchase. We’ve saved substantial cash on our final two residence purchases with this.
We’re shifting to Oregon, and it seems to be like Oregon doesn’t permit rebates at buy. With this in thoughts, is anybody conscious of hourly brokers, or web sites the place we might discover low-cost brokers now that the buy-side can be negotiable after the NAR settlement?
Additionally, on condition that this settlement remains to be comparatively new (August seventeenth), can one assume that any new itemizing solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in?
Thanks!
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50
No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
betablocker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:50 pm
I’m actually inquisitive about your final query. My default going ahead is to look alone with no consumers agent.
That is precisely what now we have been doing. Noticed a number of properties this weekend and we requested the agent if the vendor was paying the customer’s fee. The all stated sure. This provides us some room to barter since there might be no purchaser’s fee.
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Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
557880yvi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 6:11 pmbetablocker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:50 pm
I’m actually inquisitive about your final query. My default going ahead is to look alone with no consumers agent.That is precisely what now we have been doing. Noticed a number of properties this weekend and we requested the agent if the vendor was paying the customer’s fee. The all stated sure. This provides us some room to barter since there might be no purchaser’s fee.
For clarification, did you see the entire property you at respective open home occasions? Was any proven to you exterior of an open home association?
Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
Prices owed by the vendor that you simply paid. You may in-
clude in your foundation any quantities the vendor owes that you simply
conform to pay (so long as the vendor doesn’t reimburse you),
akin to:
• Any actual property taxes owed up by way of the day earlier than
the sale date,
• Again curiosity owed by the vendor,
• The vendor’s title recording or mortgage charges,
• Costs for enhancements or repairs which can be the sell-
er’s accountability (for instance, lead paint elimination),
and
• Gross sales commissions (for instance, cost to the sell-
er’s actual property agent).
I am unsure whether or not or not this may apply to the customer’s agent fee when instantly paid by the customer.
Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
evancox10 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 11:26 pm
Does anybody understand how this may have an effect on the tax foundation of the property, if the customer is now liable for paying the customer’s agent? IRS Pub 523 has this to say on actual property commissions & foundation:Prices owed by the vendor that you simply paid. You may in-
clude in your foundation any quantities the vendor owes that you simply
conform to pay (so long as the vendor doesn’t reimburse you),
akin to:
• Any actual property taxes owed up by way of the day earlier than
the sale date,
• Again curiosity owed by the vendor,
• The vendor’s title recording or mortgage charges,
• Costs for enhancements or repairs which can be the sell-
er’s accountability (for instance, lead paint elimination),
and
• Gross sales commissions (for instance, cost to the sell-
er’s actual property agent).I am unsure whether or not or not this may apply to the customer’s agent fee when instantly paid by the customer.
This is a superb query. It might seem that since Pub 523 says “…prices owed by the vendor”, and the vendor doesn’t “owe” the customer’s agent’s charge, it will not qualify as a part of the premise. However, it will be fascinating to learn the way the IRS has allowed taxpayers to deal with a purchaser’s agent charge previously if paid by the customer (not frequent however in all probability occurs in some instances). Since it will be a part of the price of buying the property at closing paid by the customer, plainly it will be handled like authorized charges. However will very fascinating discover out the reply. I stay in a really HCOL space so this isn’t an insignificant value.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
InvisibleAerobar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 7:39 pm557880yvi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 6:11 pmbetablocker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:50 pm
I’m actually inquisitive about your final query. My default going ahead is to look alone with no consumers agent.That is precisely what now we have been doing. Noticed a number of properties this weekend and we requested the agent if the vendor was paying the customer’s fee. The all stated sure. This provides us some room to barter since there might be no purchaser’s fee.
For clarification, did you see the entire property you at respective open home occasions? Was any proven to you exterior of an open home association?
In MN now we have a “Residence Tour Settlement”. The wording is such that you’re not signing a purchaser rep settlement, and no charges could be charged for displaying the property. This settlement works effectively after we get signal calls on a list.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
stan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Actual Information Comes Solely From Expertise
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
evancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:17 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
It issues when the gross sales value of the home does not come down and the customer pays the two.0%-2.5% on high of the gross sales value.
My daughter and son-in-law are consumers coming from an condo. There are thousands and thousands of individuals like them.
Actual Information Comes Solely From Expertise
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:39 am
It issues when the gross sales value of the home does not come down and the customer pays the two.0%-2.5% on high of the gross sales value.My daughter and son-in-law are consumers coming from an condo. There are thousands and thousands of individuals like them.
That is again on the pool of consumers not the sellers. If there are consumers keen to pay 2-2.5% extra then that is the agreed upon market value. I understand that is an instructional reply and does not assist your children who it sounds stay in an space the place there’s a scarcity of housing they will afford. This settlement has nothing to do with enhancing affordability. I nonetheless suppose the most important beneficiaries might be attorneys and one or two billionaires who’re fortunate sufficient to create the eventual startup that may do the transactional a part of the job at a really low value. There are a number of limitations to market disruption although akin to totally different legal guidelines in each state.
Every market is totally different, however what folks appear to be posting (to date) is that many listings nonetheless have purchaser agent fee included within the asking value. Consumers could make a aggressive provide with purchaser agent fee included or not. Most consumers whether or not first time or transfer up haven’t got tens of hundreds of {dollars} in further money and can wish to finance the agent fee into the mortgage. Most individuals usually are not Bogleheads.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
stan1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:53 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:39 am
It issues when the gross sales value of the home does not come down and the customer pays the two.0%-2.5% on high of the gross sales value.My daughter and son-in-law are consumers coming from an condo. There are thousands and thousands of individuals like them.
That is again on the pool of consumers not the sellers. If there are consumers keen to pay 2-2.5% extra then that is the agreed upon market value. I understand that is an instructional reply and does not assist your children who it sounds stay in an space the place there’s a scarcity of housing they will afford. This settlement has nothing to do with enhancing affordability. I nonetheless suppose the most important beneficiaries might be attorneys and one or two billionaires who’re fortunate sufficient to create the eventual startup that may do the transactional a part of the job at a really low value. There are a number of limitations to market disruption although akin to totally different legal guidelines in each state.
Every market is totally different, however what folks appear to be posting (to date) is that many listings nonetheless have purchaser agent fee included within the asking value. Consumers could make a aggressive provide with purchaser agent fee included or not. Most consumers whether or not first time or transfer up haven’t got tens of hundreds of {dollars} in further money and can wish to finance the agent fee into the mortgage. Most individuals usually are not Bogleheads.
A minimum of within the Boston space, banks aren’t keen to finance the customer agent charge. That is having a major affect on younger consumers in a really excessive value, low stock market the place an extra $14-$20k money at closing both reduces down cost growing borrowing prices or reduces money obtainable for different issues.
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Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
evancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:17 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
It completely does matter! I owned my paid off residence for 28 years after I sadly bought it in October of 2020, not understanding that six weeks later housing costs have been going to begin skyrocketing! I paid each my agent and the customer’s agent commissions (which BTW I do not really feel are value even near that type of cash). I sadly have not been capable of finding a brand new home but on account of this loopy market and housing scarcity, however there isn’t any means I’ll ever conform to pay one other purchaser’s agent charge after I purchase my new home after I simply paid hundreds of {dollars} to my purchaser’s agent. The NAR settlement ought to result in decrease residence costs, however I have not seen that in Florida. Customers at the moment are paying much more for houses than they have been earlier than this settlement, and residential costs have been already ridiculously costly and overvalued. I am disgusted with the entire housing market at this level. 
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
stan1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:53 am
Every market is totally different, however what folks appear to be posting (to date) is that many listings nonetheless have purchaser agent fee included within the asking value. Consumers could make a aggressive provide with purchaser agent fee included or not. Most consumers whether or not first time or transfer up haven’t got tens of hundreds of {dollars} in further money and can wish to finance the agent fee into the mortgage. Most individuals usually are not Bogleheads.
Available in the market the place my daughter and SIL are wanting (central NJ), something you do which provides the slightest look that you’re carving something out, or in any means perceived as being troublesome, you’re not in consideration for the house. Many consumers are “someway” coming in with all money (this appears not as unusual as you’d suppose) so if you’re planning to take a mortgage you’re already at a drawback.
Current instance from three weeks in the past. Daughter and SIL bid $60,000 over asking for a house (asking value was $710,000 they usually bid $770,000). Planing to place >20% down. Sellers had over a dozen gives following the primary open home, two of which have been $100,000 over asking. My daughter and SIL’s provide was thought of not aggressive and was rejected with no alternative for them to re-bid.
You suppose them getting cute and saying I’ll provide $X, however that assumes you (the vendor) is choosing up the consumers fee goes to fly in that market? I do not.
Actual Information Comes Solely From Expertise
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Re: Post-NAR Settlement Buyer Commission Megathread [National Association of Realtors]
Properly, we made a suggestion on Sunday evening, countered on Monday and it was simply accepted Monday night! So just about sizzling off the press!
Deal was Vendor (it is a new Spec home virtually accomplished) would cowl 2.5% Purchaser and Vendor fee.
We began working with our Purchaser Agent in April and have been on a severe hunt!
WoodSpinner
WoodSpinner
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
557880yvi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:08 amstan1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:53 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:39 am
It issues when the gross sales value of the home does not come down and the customer pays the two.0%-2.5% on high of the gross sales value.My daughter and son-in-law are consumers coming from an condo. There are thousands and thousands of individuals like them.
That is again on the pool of consumers not the sellers. If there are consumers keen to pay 2-2.5% extra then that is the agreed upon market value. I understand that is an instructional reply and does not assist your children who it sounds stay in an space the place there’s a scarcity of housing they will afford. This settlement has nothing to do with enhancing affordability. I nonetheless suppose the most important beneficiaries might be attorneys and one or two billionaires who’re fortunate sufficient to create the eventual startup that may do the transactional a part of the job at a really low value. There are a number of limitations to market disruption although akin to totally different legal guidelines in each state.
Every market is totally different, however what folks appear to be posting (to date) is that many listings nonetheless have purchaser agent fee included within the asking value. Consumers could make a aggressive provide with purchaser agent fee included or not. Most consumers whether or not first time or transfer up haven’t got tens of hundreds of {dollars} in further money and can wish to finance the agent fee into the mortgage. Most individuals usually are not Bogleheads.
A minimum of within the Boston space, banks aren’t keen to finance the customer agent charge. That is having a major affect on younger consumers in a really excessive value, low stock market the place an extra $14-$20k money at closing both reduces down cost growing borrowing prices or reduces money obtainable for different issues.
Do you imply finance the customer’s agent fee individually exterior of escrow, or finance it whether it is included within the asking value and paid out of escrow as has been accomplished for many years? All of the extra purpose to incorporate the customer fee within the asking value.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:26 amstan1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:53 am
Every market is totally different, however what folks appear to be posting (to date) is that many listings nonetheless have purchaser agent fee included within the asking value. Consumers could make a aggressive provide with purchaser agent fee included or not. Most consumers whether or not first time or transfer up haven’t got tens of hundreds of {dollars} in further money and can wish to finance the agent fee into the mortgage. Most individuals usually are not Bogleheads.Available in the market the place my daughter and SIL are wanting (central NJ), something you do which provides the slightest look that you’re carving something out, or in any means perceived as being troublesome, you’re not in consideration for the house. Many consumers are “someway” coming in with all money (this appears not as unusual as you’d suppose) so if you’re planning to take a mortgage you’re already at a drawback.
Current instance from three weeks in the past. Daughter and SIL bid $60,000 over asking for a house (asking value was $710,000 they usually bid $770,000). Planing to place >20% down. Sellers had over a dozen gives following the primary open home, two of which have been $100,000 over asking. My daughter and SIL’s provide was thought of not aggressive and was rejected with no alternative for them to re-bid.
You suppose them getting cute and saying I’ll provide $X, however that assumes you (the vendor) is choosing up the consumers fee goes to fly in that market? I do not.
You do not suppose that if the very best provide is $1026K with $25K going to purchaser’s agent out of escrow (or no matter time period is utilized in New Jersey) the vendor ought to take that over $1000K vendor pays the realtor instantly for $1K further in acquire?
I stay in a VHCOL space as effectively so I perceive full effectively the frustration of bidding over ask, and bidding over ask but nonetheless not making the most effective provide. We needed to bid $75K over asking to buy this home. However we have been in a position to get a few of it again on the financing and inspection contingency. However we solely had 1 different provide not 10. Nearly unattainable for a purchaser to barter when there are 10 different consumers. It isn’t like that in every single place.
As for the place some consumers are getting money to purchase a home: guessing for quite a lot of it’s gainz from their TSLA, NVDA, and crypto.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:39 amevancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:17 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
It issues when the gross sales value of the home does not come down and the customer pays the two.0%-2.5% on high of the gross sales value.
My daughter and son-in-law are consumers coming from an condo. There are thousands and thousands of individuals like them.
Sure, however once they promote the home in X years they recoup that. Sure it will be higher to profit now moderately than later, and so forth. However at most we’re speaking a 2%-3% adjustment, which might be swamped by most different components, so I really feel like that is lacking the forest for the bushes.
Would you complain about inventory costs not happening when brokerage commissions go down, simply since you’re within the accumulation stage? I imply, positive, perhaps you would be higher off the opposite means, however it should wash out in the long run. The necessary half is we’re not all paying $100 for each single inventory commerce. That advantages everybody.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
FinIndyGal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:16 amevancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:17 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
It completely does matter! I owned my paid off residence for 28 years after I sadly bought it in October of 2020, not understanding that six weeks later housing costs have been going to begin skyrocketing! I paid each my agent and the customer’s agent commissions (which BTW I do not really feel are value even near that type of cash). I sadly have not been capable of finding a brand new home but on account of this loopy market and housing scarcity, however there isn’t any means I’ll ever conform to pay one other purchaser’s agent charge after I purchase my new home after I simply paid hundreds of {dollars} to my purchaser’s agent. The NAR settlement ought to result in decrease residence costs, however I have not seen that in Florida. Customers at the moment are paying much more for houses than they have been earlier than this settlement, and residential costs have been already ridiculously costly and overvalued. I am disgusted with the entire housing market at this level.
What do 20%, 40%, even 100% will increase in housing costs must do with a 2%-3% purchaser’s agent fee? Would you be pleased with solely a 17%, 37%, or 97% enhance as an alternative?
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Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
MikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
That is specious reasoning. The value a home sells at is on the intersection of provide and demand curves, i.e. the bottom value a vendor is keen to promote at, and the very best value a purchaser is keen and in a position to purchase at. If the sale value doesn’t go down though the price to promote goes down, then which means the demand from consumers keen and in a position to pay extra (home value + purchaser’s agent fee) was adequate to take care of costs.
Consumers will seemingly get the quick finish of the stick on account of overwhelming demand relative to produce, not due to the change in who has to pay fee.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
evancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 11:49 amFinIndyGal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:16 amevancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:17 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amstan1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 5:55 pm
We’ve a megathread right here which can assist:
viewtopic.php?t=437559&start=50No, you can not assume the asking value solely has the itemizing agent fee factored in. You must ask. Some can have it, some won’t. The vendor makes the choice on that, and the MLS can not determine what the customer’s agent fee is that if any.
And herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
It completely does matter! I owned my paid off residence for 28 years after I sadly bought it in October of 2020, not understanding that six weeks later housing costs have been going to begin skyrocketing! I paid each my agent and the customer’s agent commissions (which BTW I do not really feel are value even near that type of cash). I sadly have not been capable of finding a brand new home but on account of this loopy market and housing scarcity, however there isn’t any means I’ll ever conform to pay one other purchaser’s agent charge after I purchase my new home after I simply paid hundreds of {dollars} to my purchaser’s agent. The NAR settlement ought to result in decrease residence costs, however I have not seen that in Florida. Customers at the moment are paying much more for houses than they have been earlier than this settlement, and residential costs have been already ridiculously costly and overvalued. I am disgusted with the entire housing market at this level.
What do 20%, 40%, even 100% will increase in housing costs must do with a 2%-3% purchaser’s agent fee? Would you be pleased with solely a 17%, 37%, or 97% enhance as an alternative?
As a result of for many individuals, $10k or $40k of further up-front money makes all of the distinction on the planet.
Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
557880yvi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 12:36 pmevancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 11:49 amFinIndyGal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:16 amevancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:17 amMikeG62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:06 amAnd herein lies the issue. What number of sellers are going to volunteer to pay the commissions on either side (sellers and consumers) when the market now accepts the choice of sellers solely paying for the gross sales aspect commissions? Do we actually anticipate the asking costs to come back down for this (purchaser now pays the purchase aspect fee) in markets the place it’s typical for homes to promote over asking?
Purchaser’s are (for lack of a greater strategy to put it) most definitely going to get the quick finish of the stick right here.
Does it actually matter whether or not costs transfer up or down in consequence? Most consumers are additionally sellers, if not on the identical time then later.
It completely does matter! I owned my paid off residence for 28 years after I sadly bought it in October of 2020, not understanding that six weeks later housing costs have been going to begin skyrocketing! I paid each my agent and the customer’s agent commissions (which BTW I do not really feel are value even near that type of cash). I sadly have not been capable of finding a brand new home but on account of this loopy market and housing scarcity, however there isn’t any means I’ll ever conform to pay one other purchaser’s agent charge after I purchase my new home after I simply paid hundreds of {dollars} to my purchaser’s agent. The NAR settlement ought to result in decrease residence costs, however I have not seen that in Florida. Customers at the moment are paying much more for houses than they have been earlier than this settlement, and residential costs have been already ridiculously costly and overvalued. I am disgusted with the entire housing market at this level.
What do 20%, 40%, even 100% will increase in housing costs must do with a 2%-3% purchaser’s agent fee? Would you be pleased with solely a 17%, 37%, or 97% enhance as an alternative?
As a result of for many individuals, $10k or $40k of further up-front money makes all of the distinction on the planet.
Do you suppose declining to make use of a purchaser’s agent is an cheap alternative for a money strapped purchaser? Why or why not? And what would you advise your little one to do when buying their first residence, assuming they needed to pay the three% out of pocket and are not flush with money?
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Re: Buying Agent – new RE Rules
evancox10 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:11 pm
Do you suppose declining to make use of a purchaser’s agent is an cheap alternative for a money strapped purchaser? Why or why not? And what would you advise your little one to do when buying their first residence, assuming they needed to pay the three% out of pocket and are not flush with money?
1. It isn’t 3%, it is 2.5%. A Washington Put up article at this time says that is the common.
2. For a starter home, a lot of the different potential consumers will face the identical subject. So bid decrease to compensate.
3. Sellers of most starter houses will in all probability provide to pay the customer’s agent anyway.
4. Remember the fact that the vendor has already signed an settlement together with his agent. That settlement could present the next fee for an unrepresented purchaser. Exhibiting up with out an agent could not cut back the worth.
